Episode 105: How We'd Do It - Star Wars

[Gilberto]

Part 1 of 2...

Sean, Greg and Andrew set out into the taboo territory of the Star Wars Prequels not to complain, but to throw their own notes into the ring as to how they would have handled Episode I, II & III. Plus they discuss the Clash of the Titans remake.

media.libsyn.com/media/darkcrazy/TVAMD_SWHowToPT1.mp3

[Scary Gary]

I tend to be much more forgiving of the Star Wars prequels than many. But I easily recognize the numerous flaws in the films and agree they could have been so much more. I think in the first film, Lucas was trying to amplify the tragedy of Anakin's eventual fall by portraying him as a rather normal 8-year-old kid. This failed to work well for a number of reasons, which you all covered in the show.

I think introducing R2 and 3PO as established friends, opposed to showing them meeting, would have been a much stronger tie in to the original trilogy.

In AOTC, I would have liked to see a cloned Darth Maul. I also would have liked to have seen a much better Anakin-Count Dooku lightsaber duel. The love story was lacking, way too juvenile for my tastes. And the link between Jango Fett and the Clone Troopers was not really necessary.

In ROTS, my biggest gripe (mentioned on this show) was how Anakin falls. I think it would have been much better if when the Jedi discover Palpatine is the Sith Lord, they hid Padme from Anakin to protect her. This, along with some help from Palpy's venomous tongue, pushes Anakin against the Jedi.

[Scary Gary]

I forgot to mention, I think the biggest problem with the Star Wars prequels was that Lucas directed them all. I think he would have been better off finding someone else to take the helm, as he did with ESB and ROTJ.

[lynn]

I think for me the boring and unlikable characters killed it. Jarjar. nuff said.
Also, podcast racers! I'd play that game!

[drivebyluna]

This is why I love Star Trek more. I saw the Star Wars prequels before I saw the original 3 movies and it kind of ruined it for me. Besides, I grew on Next Generation episodes.

[Gilberto]

I totally didn't realize I said podcast racers, even though they kept laughing at me for it.

The real problem with the prequels is that Lucas had some neat ideas that didn't pan out. Anakin is an immaculate conception who is the product of some weird evil ritual of Palpatine's (which is suggested by their conversation in ROTS where he reveals that he killed his own mentor for the secret of "creating life" - presumably a power he used to create Anakin). This is a very weird cool idea that is only teased at enough to be annoying.

Why is Anakin so important to Palpatine? Vader never seems valuable to the Emperor in the original films. In fact he wants Luke to kill him and take his place. It seems like they're suggesting his ultimate goal (if we assume a thematic relationship between the 2 trilogies) is to corrupt good jedi, but how is creating an evil baby from the Power of the Force the endgame to doing that? Since we're given to believe that Anakin is clearly bad from the start, his corruption is not moving and his later redemption is not credible.

And do the Jedi need corrupting? They're already blinded by bureaucracy to the point of being impotent in the face of an obvious threat. Creating a super jedi to kill them really isn't necessary, especially since Vader ultimately has very little to do with their destruction. Mostly it was the clone army that did that.

And if you have an all-clone army under your control, and it's apparently the only army in the whole universe, why all the subterfuge? The element of surprise helped the clone troopers kill most of the jedi in a single montage, but most of them almost die at the end of AOTC at the hands of the robot army Palpatine apparently already had. It took the clone army to save them, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense considering their secret goal was to kill them.

So why would Palpatine need clones if his robot army would do the job? And if he could build a secret clone army in the first place, why did he need to covertly rise through the ranks of the Senate? And if clones would do the trick, what would be the benefit of creating an evil super-jedi who would then be the only person in the universe powerful enough to kill you?

And where did Darth Maul come from? He talks like he has some personal beef with the Jedi, but no one recognizes him and everyone is shocked that a Sith could exist at all. So what was his beef? Did he just want attention? And why did Palpatine even bother with him, knowing that Anakin was out there? Why didn't Palpatine buy Anakin from Watto and raise him to be evil? He seemed to know exactly where he was and how important he was even though the Jedi were totally clueless until they did a blood workup on him.

I can enjoy the 2nd and 3rd one for what they are - flashy scifi action movies - but other than that I don't get it.

[lynn]

Yeah, I remember thinking it was weird when Anakin's mom was all, "He hasn't got a father", and I didn't pick up on that Palpatine may be his "father". You know that could have been a cool selling point for getting Anakin to the dark side if he'd wanted to. Then you could have had the cool parallel with Luke's "I am your father" arc.
Darth Maul is just an excuse to wear makeup and kill a mentor figure.
Why don't any of the Jedi sense Palpatine's power? All throghout they mention being able to sense each other's power, but not one senses Palpatine's power?
Darth Maul was on the planet with Anakin and the Jedi, was he there only after the Jedi or to watch over Anakin?
I liked your idea that Palpatine should have tried to kill Padame (they seem to forget by the end how important a politician she is) and the Jedi tried to squirrel her away to save her. Could have been a great moment where Anakin actually hesitated and couldn't kill "the younglings" until Palpatine told him she was dead (which could have been a lie anyway).
Also, what the hell are people doing settling on a lava planet? Anakin combusts just lying on the surface of the place, I can't see settlers flying over and thinking the views were just so pretty they had to build fireproof houses there. Actually I don't remember that scene well so I don't remember if there's much of a settlement there but it seems like a stupid place to go anyway. Also, the Anakin jumping over Obiwan's head didn't make sense. Why didn't he just walk around? Or force push him back?
I think the point of the Jedi already being corrupt is that they keep going on about the Jedi coming who will bring balance to the force, but they all just assume that means he's going to be all good and not dark side, which is weird since they think they've wiped out the Sith anyway, doesn't look balanced to me. Anyhow, the point is that from the beginning they kinda needed to be wiped out for a new system to be brough in, so Palpatine was necessary to the balancing the force thing to bring that about. He was a pawn, ha ha Palpatine.
I like Robot Chicken, I love that they made the bounty hunters his hairdresser's idea.

[Gilberto]

That's the interesting irony of the prophecy, because Anakin does bring balance by wiping the Jedi out. This, too, could have been a really interesting idea to explore, but like everything else they kinda just throw it out there and leave it.

Palpatine being Anakin's creator could have proven to be a legitimate motivator for winning his trust and a means of building his hate at the same time. It would give Anakin a reason to seek his approval but an underlying resentment that would later culminate in his destruction of Palpatine.

Everyone just seems to end up on Tattooine, but establishing that Darth Maul was actually there to watch Anakin - maybe even to protect him - would have given him a reason for being there and, if done correctly, a reason for fighting the jedi. Going to Naboo to chase them only helped to emphasize the sith threat, which wouldn't have helped Palpatine's plan even if he thought it would because they never take the threat seriously.

The whole arc would be better if Anakin had done something to cause Padme's death (legitimately, not "she's lost the will to live"), that would have been a good last straw for him too.

That arc would have worked better if we could have believed their relationship in the first place. Anakin and Padme should have bonded in the first film, been already married in the second, and he should have fallen in the first or second act of the third film.

The problem with all those movies is that there are clearly some things that they figured ought to happen in the movies and they just kind of randomly strung them together without a lot of thought to how it all worked as its own story.

The first 3 films worked because they drew from popular myths and simpler stories like scifi serials, but the new movies only draw from the originals.

[drivebyluna]

I wonder what happened between the originals and the prequels.

Maybe his ex wife acted as a editor to his scripts?

[Gilberto]

I was giving this some more thought and came to an inescapable conclusion: The original trilogy is the Odyssey, the aftermath of a great war, a flight from unstoppable forces with an eventual return to confront your enemies... Empire is especially reminiscent of this, where they are bouncing from one island to another. There's an island with a wise old weirdo who guides them with wise visions, an island that offers paradise but only leads to betrayal, cave monsters that must be escaped before they devour the crew... It's a classic mythical story that's familiar even if you don't know why.

The prequels should have been the Iliad, the big war that led to the fallout we see in the original films. Maybe they were trying for this, but they had too many accent pieces and highlights they wanted to throw in that they missed it.

A Trojan War kind of story would have been perfect, because we already know that the Clone Wars precede the events of the original films. A Helen of Troy type story where somehow a dispute centered around the woman who would become Luke and Leia's mother would have been a perfect way to introduce Obi Wan and Anakin as mediators, which would ultimately make matters worse after Anakin falls in love with her instead.

There could be an interesting twist with the Jedi actually fighting on the wrong side much the same way Odysseus is on the wrong side in the Iliad. Anakin would be a hero of the war and ultimately become an Achilles figure, strong but brutal and merciless. You could still work in a love triangle with him and Obi Wan to further the division, but the Clone Wars would leave the galaxy in ruin, leading to the Hitler-like rise of Senator Palpatine.

I feel like in many ways they tried some of these ideas, but shied away from the drama of it in favor of kid-friendly characters and set pieces that would make for good toys and easy spin-offs. This should have been a dark story darkly told. That would have really set the tone for Episode IV.

[lynn]

I notice as filmmakers and actors etc. get older and start having kids they start doing a lot of kid-friendly things and lose their darker edge.

[Scary Gary]

I don't recall Palpy claiming his master to have the power to create life. I'm pretty sure that he claimed he had the power to prevent death. Which fed Anakin's desire to prevent the death of Padme he had envisioned.

I recall prior to ROTS that people (myself included) were assuming that it would be reveled that Palpy was Ani's father. After the films, I'm pretty sure that Lucas confirmed that theory as nil. It has been a while and I would have to dig to find that source.

I agree that one huge failing of the prequels was the lack of Vader's hands-on involvement in the Jedi Purge. His simple betrayal and kid killing wasn't enough for me. I would have much preferred to see him hunt down Jedi and show us just how powerful he was. To watch the bulk of the Jedi to be taken out by the droid and clone armies was pretty pathetic.

One reason to have the clone army was for Palpy to have someone to overthrow the droid army. Remember, the droid army was not his, it was the Trade Federation's.

One huge factor the trilogy had going for it was that it was a fight against a well established tyranny; opposed to the slow decay of a broken democracy. Most people find it more appealing to rout for the underdog.

[Gilberto]

Some people use this to theorize that Plageus created Anakin. Either way, creating him in this fashion wouldn't technically make him his father. But it would be a neat spin on the immaculate conception idea that was not explored at all, probably for fear of inviting controversy.

Palpatine controlled the trade federation, hence he controlled the droid army. Just like he manipulated the Republic to control the clone army. So it's just a trumped-up intrigue that proves to be unnecessary.

The potential of this trilogy - something they were trying to do - was that we could have seen the good guys unwittingly side with the oppressors and accidentally crush the underdogs, leaving the galaxy in upheaval. But the story was too unfocused for us to really feel the impact of this.

[Gilberto]

Here's the video we ripped a clip from for the intro...

[Scary Gary]

No shit. I forgot about the first part of that line (the create life).

I'm wondering if what I read back when this came out was some sort of miss-quote. With the numerous parallels between the trilogies, it did make perfect sense that Palpy was Ani's old man. One of my thoughts for were ROTS would go (after seeing AOTC) was that Palpy would reveal that he was Ani's dad and that he arranged Ani's mom's death. The later to Yoda or Obi, not to Ani.

Sweet. Looks like it's Star Wars homework time.