Saw

[lynn]

I spent most of yesterday watching the first three Saw movies, just because I was curious, and I must say I was surprised. The first surprise was the lack of gore in the first movie. People were touting it as torture porn from the beginning but it was really more of a thriller because they didn't focus on the gore. Of course by the third movie it has become just an excuse to watch some guy rip himself to shreds with hooks but that's not really a novelty in this genre.
Also, I was surprised in the first movie by how bad Cary Elwes was. I love him from The Princess Bride but he was disappointing here. I laughed through every empassioned moment, which I am sure was not the filmmakers' intent. So I thought the first movie wasn't at all what people were saying about it. It was really just a bleh thriller. I felt the focus on the flashbacks and other stories took away from the more interesting and potentially tense story going on in the bathroom.
The second movie I found much more interesting, with the people in the house and everything. Again, not too much focus on gore, and an obvious improvement in storyline and production values. Although the blond chick annoyed me, what was the point of her being there? They didn't even tell us why this fairly normal looking chick had been in jail! Her only point, and probably why she was cast, was to show everyone how the neurotoxin kills you. Also, too many shots of people coughing up blood, we got the point the first five times. But other than that, a fairly interesting movie.
Then the third one is obviously just a torture porn with a very long boring story about Jigsaw and Amanda that I didn't give a crap about. I actually watched most of that in fast foreward. I liked the concept of the guy in the box but we didn't see enough of it to enjoy enough. And then the killing off of Dina Meyer's character for no reason. Lame.
So I probably won't watch the next three, the road they're going down is not at all interesting.
But my point is that all people wanted to talk about with Saw was how it brought about the era of modern torture porn but not the actual interesting parts in the movies, like the crazy killer who is controlling everything through fear and drugs and psychology, not through being an indestructible maniac.

[panic]

I too just watched the Saw movies, although in my case 1-5 in a weekend. I thought 1-4 were all actually entertaining. I agree they are graphic but not nearly the torture-porn of a "Hostel" or some of those Italian horror movies.

I think Shawnee Smith is hot so she was great in 2-3.

5 was pretty awful. I have 6 in my netflix queue and I think she makes some king of reappearance in that.

All in all, the acting was mediocre for all involved and the story was barely plausible, but the movies are comforting like the old Nightmare on Elm Street or Friday the 13th movies. You know what you're getting.

[lynn]

what do you think of Jigsaw as a villain?

[Gilberto]

What are you all doing watching Saw? That's the problem; torture with no gore. Jigsaw's a crap villain because he's supposedly a mastermind but mostly he just deals with rock-stupid people.

Shawnee Smith's been hot since Summer School - no argument there.

But that's it. Cary Elwes is always ridiculous in dramatic roles; as evidenced by the fact that he's upstaged by Donnie Wahlberg.

[lynn]

Don't tell me I can't watch a popular horror movie to see what it's like, you're telling me to watch horrible movies all the time just because you think they're funny! This is no worse than most of those seminal horrors from your generation that you think everyone should have watched just because they're classics. So many of them are so terrible, but they brought something new in so they're considered seminal. I didn't love Saw, but there's loads worse movies. At least they're trying something, doing a bit of thinking.
I like the idea of Jigsaw more than the execution, I don't think they ever used what they created. I was reading this twist endind article and all the comments and there's this massive arguement going on about the twist ending, with him getting up off the floor. It was a cool moment, but then he just walks out and you're like, that was cool but now what?

[drivebyluna]

I'm watching the Descent 2 and it is also.. not very good.

[Gilberto]

Descent 1 was a bit annoying. The monsters were kind of cool though.

You may, of course, watch whatever you like, but I'll take the crap of the eighties over today's movies in almost all cases. And I'm not shy to point out crap classics like "I Spit on Your Grave" and "Last House on the Left" as unwatchable. I don't want those movies getting remade any more than I want any more Saw movies.

[lynn]

The Saw franchise had descended into unwatchability like every other horror franchise. All I'm saying is I watched it to see, and I was surprised by how unhorrible it was. It was trying to be a thriller. I like thrillers, not enough intelligent thrillers anymore.
I'm not going to name names but I find a lot of 80s stuff unwatchable. And it's not just because i'm too young to appreciate good filmmaking, because I love a lot of black and white and old school musicals. But I'm allowed to not like them, you're allowed to not like Saw of course, but don't ask me what I'm doing watching a movie. That's beneath you Gilbert. I'm watching the movie to see. If you'll notice my conclusion was that they didn't actually live up to the hype and I was disappointed with most of it.
I don't think they should remake most 80s stuff, not because I don't like it but what I do like about it is the 80sness. It's not good when you update it, because it loses its charm.

[panic]

Jigsaw as a villain? My first response to the question was "oh not so much," but really he's as credible as any other movie"criminal genius." I must have missed (in 6 movies) why the jigsaw pieces are important. And the creepy doll thing? It seems like a lot of work. The tape recorders were effective enough.

I guess I am disappointed because the thing doesn't work as a morality tale. Sure, wesley and shawnee and the rest have reasons to be "in the game," but a lot of police get killed in the process. I get the revenge factor Mr Jigsaw but those SWAT guys never did anything to you, man. Perhaps if you spent less time playing with your unnecessary remote control doll and more time on your secret lair, you wouldn't have had to shoot all those cops.

The character purports to be dealing cosmic justice with a side of puppetry but ends up just being a jerk with a garage full of bear traps and kitchen timers.

[lynn]

What an epically appropriate roundup of Saw! The Jigsaw pieces were meant to represent something missing in the person who had failed, but ended up really just representing how everyone was a piece in the little games he was playing.
You're right, if Jigsaw really was so holy and unafraid of dying and stuff, he really shouldn't have killed all those cops. But it is fairly realistic, most of these prophets and holy men spend their time monologing about their own justifications and trying to get out of punishment, rather than doing anything worthwhile. By the end it felt like he was just tormenting people for the sake of it, like revealing after he goads a man to kill him, "by the way, I was the only person who knows where your daughter is, sucka!"
The doll could have been creepy but it was never used well enough.