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Post by Gilberto on Apr 17, 2010 12:03:33 GMT -5
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Post by panic on Apr 19, 2010 10:07:10 GMT -5
You guys nailed it! What I thought was going to be 2 episodes of geekery (not a bad thing) turned into two episodes of intelligent, creative geekery. God help me I want to watch your version of the series in one marathon setting, whereas the real episodes I-III I don't care if I ever see again.
Please take on another film or series. I think more of these types of episodes could result in actually saving the future (although I'm looking forward to your thoughts about that topic as well).
Aside from all the flowery language, you guys fucking rocked the last show. This is why I listen each and ever time.
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Post by Scary Gary on Apr 20, 2010 10:10:18 GMT -5
Still listening to the show, but I thought I'd point out that it was the novelization of the original trilogy that first mentioned Palpatine as being a senator. Later, the Thrawn trilogy and the extended universe novels echoed the fact.
I also thought that the way Obi cut down Ani was lame. As you all stated, the idea of giving him a second chance or warning was cool, but the "you underestimate my power" line was delivered very poorly and the scene was just weak.
Along the same line, I also thought the way Obi killed Darth Maul was rather blah. Maul just stood there with that confused dog look on his face.
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Post by Gilberto on Apr 20, 2010 16:29:15 GMT -5
I like the fact that he cut Darth Maul in half, but since we don't know him at all and he's only in basically two real scenes (both fight scenes), there's nothing there to give us any real satisfaction.
If this is the story they're stuck on, then Darth Maul should have shown up sooner and killed Qui Gon in the first act, leaving Obi Wan on his own to make the tough decisions without the benefit of his master's experience. Then the third act confrontation between Obi Wan and Maul would have been better paced and had more to offer. Or God forbid, Maul lives to become a more important villain in the following movies instead of parading out some new anonymous weirdo every time. Why not maim him in the first movie so he comes back as a 6 armed killing machine instead of just inventing an all new villain in General Grievous?
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Post by Scary Gary on Apr 20, 2010 17:44:21 GMT -5
I didn't mind him cutting Maul in half. What I had an issue with was how Obi flips over him and Maul just watches. Considering all the fast action up to that point, the scene just seemed out of flow.
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Post by lynn on Apr 20, 2010 18:30:21 GMT -5
Oh, six armed fighting machine! Put that in our version of the movie!?!
Also, don't forget how lame the, as Greg puts it, "plot device" which stops him coming to his master aid is. Oh no, random energy fields here for no reason, can't save master!
Also, this has been bothering me, why does Palpatine spend so much time and energy on creating Vadar? Does he really need a minion that badly? Can't he rent one?
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Post by Gilberto on Apr 21, 2010 16:27:29 GMT -5
Palpatine had Maul! Why is Anakin so special? Nothing he does really turns the tide in Palpatine's favor. He's never trusted by the jedi and he isn't smart, so he's not really an asset. In fact he does more to hinder him. At least Maul followed orders without question.
Compare Obi Wan's fight with Darth Maul in episode 1 to his final battle with Anakin in episode 3. Didn't Maul have the high ground? How is it that no matter how Obi Wan strikes he can cut someone to pieces, even when he's just a padawan with no tactical advantage? This is the story not even following its own rules.
I was just thinking about the Yoda thing. In Empire Yoda is essentially a Deus Ex Machina device. Luke has a vision of Ben's ghost while dying of exposure, then finds his way to this mystery planet to find a jedi master no one's ever heard of. This spiritual experience is purely for his benefit. he never tells anyone about Yoda, even when he breaks from the rebellion to return to Dagobah. Even then he just watches Yoda disappear. We are never given any real assurance that Yoda is anything more than a hallucination. He's like a divine intervention to put Luke on the path. Even when Luke encounters Vader later on, Vader continues to assume Obi Wan is responsible for all his training. Vader has no clue of Yoda's involvement.
It would be interesting in our episode 1 to have Palpatine as head of the jedi order, leading them astray, meanwhile Yoda is regarded as a myth, a story about the jedi's passive past that Palpatine is constantly trying to convince them is unrealistic.
Then in our episode 2 Obi Wan crash lands on Dagobah in the aftermath of a great battle and discovers Yoda. He tries to get Yoda to return and fight, but Yoda teaches him about the spiritual connection of all living things, including his enemies. He gives him the ancient wisdom that's lacking in modern jedi and entrusts him to be the last torch bearer of those teachings, assuring him that this dark time will pass and a new age will come.
Obi Wan, of course, returns to the war only to discover that Anakin is secretly assassinating jedi. This is the arc of our episode 3 that prevents Obi Wan from trying to put the jedi order on the right path, because he has to go rogue in an ultimately futile effort to redeem Anakin.
This story would make Obi Wan a ronin against the rigid samurai discipline of the jedi, and by the time he realizes it's too late to save Anakin, it's too late to save the jedi order and the Republic.
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Post by Scary Gary on Apr 21, 2010 16:51:50 GMT -5
I like the idea of Yoda being in a self-induced exile due to indifference with the way the Jedi have become. His choice of Dagobah could be explained as a planet that masks his presence, so that he cannot be disturbed until he chooses to return. Qui-Gon's ghost could lead Obiwan to Yoda, to complete his training in the more passive aspects of the Force that the other Jedi have abandoned.
Along these lines, I like the idea of Palpy being the secret threat. That way the Jedi fail to see the looming threat that ends up right under their noses. It plays well in tandem with Yoda's character; Yoda goes into exile while Palpy comes out of the shadow.
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Post by lynn on Apr 21, 2010 17:26:34 GMT -5
Qui-Gon's ghost? Are we sticking with the version where at the end Yoda just says something about Qui-Gon having discovered some remarkable new way of living after death, or should we have the Jedi already knowing that? It could be better if it's one of those things Yoda has figured out in his exile.
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Post by Scary Gary on Apr 21, 2010 19:06:57 GMT -5
Maybe Yoda teaches Qui-Gon posthumously?
Or maybe Qui-Gon has regularly visited Yoda, his former Master, in exile; keeping the later informed of some of the goings on in the galaxy.
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Post by Gilberto on Apr 22, 2010 15:48:29 GMT -5
I'm not sure our requel prequels have a Qui Gon figure. If there is one, I think he should be a devout pacifist who is on the outs with the order and cautions Obi Wan not to become involved in the war, but he is killed in a 911-style terrorist attack by the Mandalorians that leads to the ravaging of Tattooine (or whatever) and is the catalyst for Obi Wan's involvement in the war. This could be what initially bonds Obi Wan and Anakin, because they both have a sense of rage and survivor's guilt at having lived through this holocaust.
I don't think his ghost should lead Obi Wan to Dagobah, I think that should be a happy accident. There should be a subtle divine intervention that draws Obi Wan to Yoda.
I love this topic. I could do this episode forever.
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Post by lynn on Apr 22, 2010 20:09:46 GMT -5
I don't think it's been said, maybe it doesn't have to be, but we're scrapping the floppy-eared dude right?
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Post by Gilberto on Apr 24, 2010 7:49:35 GMT -5
We're scrapping everything. It's like it's 1997 and Lucas said "hey guys, what do you think we should do with episodes 1 - 3?"
We have the advantage of having seen what doesn't work, but it's best to pretend they never happened for the purpose of this exercise.
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